Interview with Yasuhiro Nishiyama, creator of the "Sangokushi Taisen" series, among others: What kind of "new" experiences can blockchain games create?

Yasuhiro Nishiyama of Sugorokkusu Co., Ltd. has been appointed producer of the new blockchain game "Battle of Three Kingdoms -Sangokushi Taisen- (Sangokushi Taisen B3K)" by double jump.tokyo Co., Ltd. (hereinafter referred to as DJT Co., Ltd.). Nishiyama worked on the "Sangokushi Taisen" series as a game producer at Sega, and just founded Sugorokkusu Co., Ltd., a "content production company," in 2024.

Why is Nishiyama, who has worked on many of Sega's representative game titles, including the Sangokushi Taisen series, working on blockchain game development? We asked him for more details.

First of all, please tell us how you came to be appointed producer of "Sangokushi Taisen B3K (hereinafter referred to as B3K)".

Nishiyama: This year, I started Sugorokkusu Co., Ltd., and at that time, Nobu (Hironobu Ueno, CEO of DJT Co., Ltd.) contacted me.

B3K itself was licensed by Sega and DJT had been developing it for a while.

Nishiyama: Yes. I was originally the creator of the Sangokushi Taisen series at Sega, but I wasn't involved in B3K at all, so I was just watching it casually, thinking, "They're working hard." (laughs)

B3K was originally scheduled to be released in 2023, but the schedule was postponed to 2024, and Nishiyama joined. Why did they ask you?

Nishiyama: I think that at the time when Nobu and the other people at DJT were trying to do more with B3K, they found me, who seemed to be a good fit, and asked me.

It seems like a difficult decision to join a title that has already been developed to a certain extent, but why did you think, "Let's give it a try!"?

Nishiyama: When I left Sega, where I had been working for nearly 30 years, to start my own company, I was thinking about taking on new challenges. I think of blockchain and AI as "software innovation," so to speak, and I wanted to democratize them and use them to create new experiences.

DJT is the company that created "My Crypto Heroes" (※1) and is a long-established company in the blockchain game industry. I felt that I could learn a lot and gain a lot of experience by working with them.

DJT is good at the blockchain field and has experience and know-how in developing blockchain games, and I, who have created various games, will team up to create an amazing blockchain game. In fact, some of the company members told me that I should quit joining in the middle of the project.

I can understand why people would say that. If you've started a business, it's better to do it yourself from scratch, including building a team, so that you can accept it whether you succeed or fail.

Nishiyama: If you fail, people will say, "Nishiyama joined and ruined it." But if you win this with a flourish, it'll be cool (laughs). Of course, that wasn't all. After I was actually approached, I talked to the development team, including Nobu and development leader Sakamoto (DJT Executive Officer/Blockchain Game Development Manager Yasuaki Sakamoto), and read the documents, and I thought this was great.

This is a very rough impression, but blockchain-related companies tend to be quite technology-oriented or rigid, and their culture is different from traditional game companies, which are right in the middle of entertainment. Furthermore, I was worried that friction would arise if an external producer came in halfway through development and started giving his opinion, but how did it feel after actually joining the development?

Nishiyama: The development team at DJT are very flexible when it comes to creating things, and when I tell them my opinion that "If you want to win, you have to change it like this," they all get excited and start making changes. In fact, it has changed so much that it can be said that the nuance of the game announced at last year's TGS (Tokyo Game Show) is almost completely gone. Of course, we're still using the same foundation that we'd built up until then, but the experience the user gets when they hold it in their hands has been completely revamped. Despite such big changes, they accomplished it with incredible speed, which shows that DJT is just as excellent as I had expected, or even better.

It's now been about three months since I started working on the project in earnest, and communication costs have been decreasing rapidly, to the point where we're now able to share issues and develop at the same level.

"There is a hint for creating a "new" experience, called blockchain. So let's make a "new" game that makes full use of it."

Hearing that, my expectations for Sangokushi Taisen B3K are rising.

Nishiyama: We are working with the intention of responding to such expectations, so please raise the bar and look forward to it.

I don't think it can be called a "new" game unless the experience changes. For example, "PUBG" created the experience of "100 players playing online at the same time" and became a global hit. With B3K, we want to create such a "new" experience.

There is a hint for creating a "new" experience, called blockchain. So let's make a "new" game by utilizing it. There are tokens (FT) and NFTs, and a mechanism called blockchain that guarantees security. It's not about "leverage" or "making money like this" by using it, but about what kind of experience you can deliver to users.

When talking about blockchain games, the conversation tends to turn to topics like "is the supply and demand balance of tokens excellent?" and "which chain is being used?", so I'm very excited about the words "new" experience and "new" game.

Nishiyama: I think that people who only talk about such "systems" have a wrong premise in the first place. People are connected to "enthusiasm" and "experiences", not to the system.

We may need to reflect on the fact that we only talk about "systems".

Nishiyama: More than that, we need to create "enthusiasm". We are trying to create something that users will be engrossed in and will "want to spend their time and money on".

It's obvious that we need to safely manage the assets entrusted to us by users and distribute rewards such as tokens fairly.

Since the blockchain system has expanded the number of things we can do, I think it's important to think about what kind of experience we can deliver to users using it, and what kind of "enthusiasm" we can deliver.

So blockchain is a hint and a material for creating experiences in game development.

Nishiyama: There is also the concept of Web 3.0 in relation to blockchain. I don't think Web 3.0 = blockchain...

If we were to explain it in terms of a dictionary, compared to the current Web 2.0 where large companies such as GAFA collect and manage data in a centralized manner, Web 3.0 is a "decentralized internet" where users themselves handle data more proactively, and blockchain is said to be the basis of this. However, it has become a bit of a buzzword, and there are various approaches and ways of interpreting it.

Nishiyama: I think it means that users take the initiative in making decisions or creating something. For example, in the world of games, the Mod (※2) culture is something that is created by users.

To put it more simply, in a competitive game, the culture of users deciding things for themselves and creating the fun themselves, such as "I won't stop until I win five times today" or "I'm going to play with these special rules," is what I think Web 3.0 is.

I see. So you're focusing on the "user-driven" aspect.

Nishiyama: That's something we're trying to incorporate into B3K, and we're making a game engine that does just that. For example, we've already released a screen for the B3K China map, and we're leaving that China map up to the user.

Oh! So it's going to include an element of "users taking the initiative to do something."

Nishiyama: That's right. We'll use blockchain, NFTs, and tokens, and incorporate the concept of Web 3.0 to deliver a "new" experience.

Well, that's easy to say, but there's no doubt that we're taking on something incredibly difficult. In April, I thought we might be able to do it, but the idea hadn't solidified. But now the idea has solidified, and we're able to get people excited. As a result, at this point in time in 2024, I can confidently say that we've created something that could only be done with DJT.

By the way, you mentioned earlier that "we need to change this in order to win," but what kind of results would make it possible to say that B3K has "won"?

Nishiyama: I want people to say that "Sangokushi Taisen B3K" changed the image of blockchain games. The blockchain system is actually a useful and convenient thing for game users. However, there are some people who avoid it because they are always focused on token prices and such. In that situation, we created a Sangokushi Taisen game that uses blockchain to provide a new experience. If people enjoy it and think, "Blockchain games are great!", then we have "won."

Of course, sales are important when creating a service, but I don't really care about sales. If we can deliver a new experience that customers are excited about, sales will follow.

The blockchain game industry is a global market, and development is taking place all over the world. In that context, what do you think Japanese companies need to win?

Nishiyama: Japan is originally the best at game development in the world. In the gaming industry, hardware innovations have occurred one after another, such as arcade games, consumer games, and smartphone games, but each time, Japanese game companies have won by creating new experiences. On the other hand, overseas game companies such as those in China and the United States are superior in terms of rich graphics and scaling the scale of games. Technologies such as blockchain and AI are software innovations, but I think Japan's winning strategy there is still to create "new" experiences.

That's exactly what Nishiyama is working on with Sangokushi Taisen B3K! Listening to you talk, I'm looking forward to the release more and more. Finally, please tell us your enthusiasm for the future.

Nishiyama: I've told my team that we'll play Sangokushi Taisen B3K for five years.

As we prepare for the release, we're incorporating one thing after another that can only be done with blockchain, but I don't think we'll suddenly have something like the "right answer" for blockchain games. That's why we're going to keep updating it with the players in a Web 3.0 style, and we already have ideas that will allow users to enjoy it for five years. We are sure to provide you with something that will make you feel like this is a truly "new" experience, so please look forward to it!

Battle of Three Kingdoms

double jump.tokyo has received a license from Sega Corporation for Sangokushi Taisen, and is currently developing a full-scale blockchain game. In addition to the generals that appeared in the arcade version of Sangokushi Taisen, new generals drawn specifically for this game will also appear. It is scheduled to be released in winter 2024 as a strategic auto-battle game using the generals of the Three Kingdoms reborn as NFT cards.

Official website: https://lp.battle-of-three-kingdoms.games/ja

Official Twitter: https://x.com/b3k_games

Scheduled for release in 4Q 2024

Ahead of the game's release, a pre-event, "Yoyu no Yoake," will be held from around autumn.

Profile

◉ Yasuhiro Nishiyama

After joining Sega, he produced hit titles such as the Sangokushi Taisen series, Code of Joker, maimai, The House of the Dead 4, and Chain Chronicle. In addition, as a business producer, he is involved in alliances with various domestic and international companies, investment in new technologies, etc. In April 2024, he founded Sugorocks Co., Ltd. and became its representative director.